English

• 00:00:00 Mira
• It's recording. We're translating much of the material into English, but is it OK with you if we use this audio material from the recording, or would you prefer that someone from our team, for example, re-records it with our voices?
• 00:00:35 Kuisma
• It’s fine with me. You can use my voice.
• 00:00:39 Ipa
• Yeah, you can use it.
• 00:00:41 Mira
• Great, thank you.
• 00:00:42 Ipa
• Yep.
• 00:00:44 Mira
• Alright, let’s start. You can answer however you like, no need to go in any specific order, you can just take your time and speak whenever it feels right. Since it’s not live, you can also take a moment to think or even say something again if needed. So let’s start with: what makes you laugh?
• 00:01:22 Kuisma
• Some really silly jokes, like… Someone recently told me one. I can never remember jokes, but those silly kinds. And then, what else would there be? Silly animal videos that show up on Facebook.
• 00:01:49 Ipa
• Yeah.
• 00:01:50 Kuisma
• And sometimes we just laugh at random things.
• 00:01:52 Ipa
• And then we laugh at ourselves.
• 00:01:54 Kuisma
• Yeah, at this age, you end up laughing at... laughter itself.
• 00:02:02 Ipa
• Or at old age.
• 00:02:06 Mira
• Can you think of something you've laughed at recently, for example?
• 00:02:14 Kuisma
• Probably how everything seems to get forgotten.
• 00:02:16 Ipa
• Sometimes, yeah.
• 00:02:18 Kuisma
• I think it was just the other day when we were sitting on the couch, laughing because we both forgot something. In the same way, even though neither of us has memory issues, thank heavens, but still, when there’s enough going on, you just forget.
• 00:02:37 Ipa
• For me, I can’t handle this hot weather, it makes me feel headless.
• 00:02:43 Kuisma
• Then on Monday, we laughed because we went grocery shopping early in the morning before eight, came home, and I realized we’d forgotten about half the stuff. It was pretty funny. These are common situations where we just end up forgetting something. I can’t think of anything else, really.
• 00:03:19 Ipa
• Me neither. Well, I guess just smiling if I see someone familiar around town. It makes me feel good, and I might smile.
• 00:03:43 Kuisma
• Yeah, sometimes we laugh with the kids, too.
• 00:03:44 Ipa
• We enjoy it. Yeah.
• 00:03:49 Kuisma
• We don’t laugh at them, but we laugh with them. With my kids, of course. When I see them as adults, which isn’t that often.
• 00:04:13 Mira
• Has this [shared humor] been something that has connected you two?
• 00:04:20 Ipa
• Yes, yes, I feel like we have a similar sense of humor—actually, we definitely do.
• 00:04:25 Kuisma
• Yes, we share a similar sense of humor in many things. Although we do have plenty of differences, our sense of humor is quite alike. For example, we respond similarly to certain incidents or things people say.
• 00:04:55 Mira
• Is there something you wish people would ask you more? This can relate to anything.
• 00:05:12 Ipa
• That’s a pretty difficult question. I’m not sure what I’d want people to ask.
• 00:05:16 Kuisma
• Yeah, well... I really appreciate it when people ask directly, if they’re wondering about something. I prefer people asking me outright about things rather than assuming something like, “Hey, is that a guy knitting?” because that doesn’t make me laugh much. Why can’t people just say, “Hey, you can knit!”? Asking directly is often the best approach in all things, not just regarding gender identity. Last fall, I had to visit a neurologist, and after all the other questions, they asked me, “How does it feel to be transmasc?” We ended up having a great discussion, and the appointment went way over time. It was a good question, I think.
• 00:06:42 Mira
• It’s good when there’s enough time for a conversation.
• 00:06:45 Kuisma
• Yes, for some reason, that doctor had time, and it felt like we had all the time in the world. I also had a doctor ask me, “That’s an interesting name. Where’s it from?” We spent time discussing that, too.
• 00:07:12 Mira
• We were talking earlier about how there are relatively few older trans people, so it feels special to be able to talk and meet with you both. These questions don’t have to focus specifically on trans experiences, though. But is there something about aging that has surprised you?
• 00:07:57 Ipa
• I don’t know if it’s surprising, but it’s something like... I don’t care what others think anymore. When I was younger, I was more concerned about what people thought of me. Now, I don’t really need to care.
• 00:08:40 Kuisma
• Yeah, that’s true. For me, the surprising thing is realizing how late in life I’ve started thinking about these things.
• 00:11:12 Ipa
• When I was a teenager, while my friends would get magazines like Suosikki (a youth magazine) or other popular ones, I subscribed to Tuulilasi (a car magazine) or Tekniikan Maailma (World of Technology).
• 00:11:23 Kuisma
• I had totally different dreams back then. My earliest dreams were about having my own family. I was adopted at six months old and grew up as an only child. I always dreamed of having an older brother—that was my first dream. Later, as an adult, I did find several “big brothers” in my life, so that wish sort of came true. Another dream I had was of having a large family because I grew up in a quiet household, very inward-looking. We didn’t have many visitors, and we didn’t go anywhere much. My mother wasn’t particularly social either. I decided that my life had to be different—I dreamed of a big family with lots of energy and activity. And I got it.
• 00:12:27 Ipa
• Both dreams came true.
• 00:12:29 Kuisma
• They really did.
• 00:12:34 Mira
• Did you have a specific model in mind for that car you wanted, Ipa?
• 00:12:36 Ipa
• Of course, it had to be a Mercedes. Nothing less.
• 00:12:43 Mira
• A Mercedes!
• 00:12:44 Ipa
• Well, I didn’t end up getting that.
• 00:12:50 Mira
• Do you remember how it felt when you finally got your car and sat behind the wheel for the first time?
• 00:13:00 Ipa
• I remember my dad teaching me to drive—it was so exciting and amazing. I didn’t actually get my own car until I was a young adult, many years later. It was such a great feeling, even though it was just a small, basic car. But it was mine.
• 00:13:28 Mira
• You were finally able to drive around.
• 00:13:29 Ipa
• Yeah, driving around was great.
• 00:13:33 Kuisma
• I had dreams of owning a car as an adult too. My parents never had a car, so I dreamed about it, especially after my first child was born. I thought, “How nice it would be to have a car.” And that dream came true too. It felt like such a huge thing to have our own car since I hadn’t grown up with one in the family.
• 00:14:08 Mira
• Yes, it’s definitely something special. I got my license two years ago.
• 00:14:12 Ipa
• Oh, right.
• 00:14:14 Mira
• And now road trips have become more of a thing. There's a unique feeling to it, that freedom of the open road.
• 00:14:33 Kuisma
• I got my license in 1985 or 1986, so I was about 30 at the time. It was quite something, yeah.
• 00:14:55 Mira
• Do you have any specific memories of tastes or smells from your childhood—anything that really stands out? I’m very interested because I have only a few such memories and I’d like to know if others have more.
• 00:15:17 Ipa
• I grew up in a suburb of Helsinki, so the scent of Rosa rugosa (Japanese rose), which is now being removed, always brings back summer memories for me. They were everywhere in the neighborhood, and it was the smell of summer.
• 00:15:40 Kuisma
• For me, it’s the smell of rain in the summer. And for some reason, the scent of heating a wood sauna. We didn’t have a wood sauna, but sometimes you’d catch a whiff of one if we visited the countryside. That’s one of the best smells. In the fall, it’s the scent of the forest. I spent my first 20 years in Oulu, where we’d sometimes go foraging for mushrooms and lingonberries. That autumn forest smell is just wonderful. And the sea, the shoreline—definitely the smell of the sea.
• 00:16:34 Mira
• Did any of you have an imaginary friend or friends as a child?
• 00:16:40 Ipa
• I did. My imaginary friends were Ippi and Instori. They looked a bit like Moomins. I don’t know if I had already seen Moomins by then, but they were my imaginary companions. I remember I was very young, maybe 3 or 4 years old.
• 00:17:10 Mira
• Ippi and Instori?
• 00:17:11 Ipa
• Yes, I don’t know where they came from, but they always had names.
• 00:17:18 Mira
• What did you do with Ippi and Instori?
• 00:17:21 Ipa
• Mostly we rode bikes. I’ve loved biking since I was very little. I got my first bike, a red one with training wheels, at a young age. I learned to ride quickly and really wanted a boys’ bike, so I often borrowed one from the boys in the yard and would ride that.
• 00:18:00 Mira
• So Ippi and Instori joined you?
• 00:18:01 Ipa
• Yes, they were along for the ride.
• 00:18:05 Kuisma
• Riding along on the back?
• 00:18:06 Ipa
• Well, it didn’t have a back rack, just a long seat since it was a boys’ bike back then.
• 00:18:16 Kuisma
• I had a blue bike myself.
• 00:18:18 Ipa
• At least that!
• 00:18:29 Mira
• This could be about childhood or any other time, but if you had a time machine to send a message to your younger self, at what age would you send it, and what would you say?
• 00:18:58 Ipa
• I’d tell my teenage self to go ahead and get that moped. My dad would have bought one, but back then I got cold feet and didn’t want to be different from the other girls. So, in the end, I never got one.
• 00:19:26 Kuisma
• I would probably tell my 13- or 14-year-old self to focus, stay disciplined, and work on my studies. I’d advise choosing a career that truly feels right for me, rather than just going along with what my parents, especially my mother, thought was best. I’d tell myself to follow my own instincts.
• 00:20:11 Mira
• Did you ever later get a moped or try riding one, Ipa?
• 00:20:15 Ipa
• I borrowed a small 250cc motorcycle from a coworker a couple of years ago. But I was already too old for it then, and it just didn’t feel the same—it wasn’t really for me anymore.
• 00:20:45 Kuisma
• Maybe you’d enjoy an electric moped now.
• 00:20:49 Ipa
• No, thanks.
• 00:20:50 Kuisma
• I’d probably go for one of those.
• 00:20:54 Ipa
• Go ahead.
• 00:21:04 Mira
• What makes you feel cared for? Are there specific things or moments where you’ve felt truly cared for?
• 00:21:26 Kuisma
• There are actually a lot of moments like that.
• 00:21:29 Ipa
• Do you have a specific example?
• 00:21:32 Kuisma
• I have some moments from childhood. I had a safe, middle-class childhood, but a very meaningful memory came when my long-term relationship, a registered partnership, ended. I had to go to a shelter, and I called my ex-husband on a Saturday morning to ask if he could take me. He rearranged his schedule with his partner to come and pick me up and drop me at the shelter. He also checked in on me afterward and even organized a small birthday celebration for me. That caring meant a lot to me.
• 00:23:02 Ipa
• I don’t really recall specific moments from my childhood, but I have one story. When I was around 30, I had been working for a long time and was under a lot of stress. I felt quite lost, wondering if work was just too overwhelming. I was sitting by a field with my dog, and I had this epiphany that I needed to quit my job. At that moment, a fox appeared by the field, and it felt like a sign. So, I quit, and it turned out to be the right decision. It felt like a kind of guidance or protection from a higher power.
• 00:24:55 Mira
• Related to that feeling of being cared for, is there anything that makes you feel safe in your body? Are there moments when you feel truly comfortable in your body?
• 00:25:18 Ipa
• Being close to another person, definitely.
• 00:25:20 Kuisma
• Yes, being in a relationship brings a lot of security, but overall, I feel pretty safe. I don’t really feel unsafe often.
• 00:25:40 Ipa
• I’d say the same.
• 00:25:47 Kuisma
• I have a certain sense of confidence in myself and in what I’ve achieved, and that gives me a steady feeling of security.
• 00:26:30 Mira
• Do you have a song that reminds you of a loved one or special person?
• 00:26:46 Kuisma
• Yes, I have a few. One is Violetta Campana, a French baroque piece from the '90s. I used to listen to it with someone very close to me. We weren’t dating, but that person was crucial in helping me find my own path. Listening to that music brings back memories of that time, the emotions, and the experiences we shared.
• 00:27:53 Ipa
• I don’t have anything specific. I listen to a lot of different music, from heavy metal to Arabic music and everything in between. Nothing particular comes to mind.
• 00:28:14 Frank
• Who plays the piano? [in the space]
• 00:28:17 Kuisma
• I’ve played since I was a child.
• 00:28:23 Ipa
• I love listening to it.
• 00:28:29 Mira
• Would it be possible for us to record a bit of your playing after this interview?
• 00:28:34 Kuisma
• Oh, you mean me?
• 00:28:36 Mira
• Yes, if you’d like to play something for us.
• 00:28:41 Kuisma
• Sure. I play a lot of baroque music, but I also have these songbooks with lighter music in them. I play those just for fun, and sometimes I go to a nearby senior service center or nursing home to play. I bring my songbook and play popular songs for the residents.
• 00:29:11 Mira
• Would you like to share something about the connection you mentioned earlier or how music relates to it?
• 00:29:25 Kuisma
• Well, this person was an old friend of mine, someone I’d known since I was a young child. At some point, I found out that she lived with another woman. They had separated by the time I started visiting my father in Oulu more often, and we reconnected. She became a trusted person for me, the first person I talked to about my own sexuality. I think it was the first time I said, “I’m not straight.” It was a profound experience. She was just the right person to talk to. She had also studied music, so we sometimes played together and had long, deep conversations late into the night. It was incredibly meaningful to have someone to talk to, who also listened. I listened to her stories, too. We had a long gap where we didn’t talk, but now we catch up occasionally.
• 00:31:15 Ipa
• Mm-hmm.
• 00:31:20 Kuisma
• I would say it was such a powerful experience because I was completely infatuated with her, completely smitten. That feeling lasted a few years, maybe even longer. It was overwhelming, unlike anything before or after. It was intense, totally irrational—something that defied reason. But I think it marked the beginning of my own personal development and self-discovery. I started to realize that life might not look exactly how I had imagined.
• 00:32:33 Mira
• Is it okay if I close the balcony door?
• 00:32:38 Ipa
• Of course, go ahead.
• 00:32:39 Mira
• The sounds [from outside] are otherwise okay but basketball can be heard.
• 00:32:44 Kuisma
• Last night, at around 3:36am, I told a basketball player to leave the court nearby. It’s a bit of an issue.
• 00:32:54 Mira
• Yes, summer nights can be tempting for that.
• 00:32:58 Kuisma
• Yes, young people—and some older ones, too—come to play.
• 00:33:07 Mira
• Slightly related to this, does any memory come to mind of doing something for the first time? Anything at all.
• 00:33:39 Kuisma
• My first flight—to England for a language course. It was incredibly exciting. I must have been about 17. And my first time driving alone.
• 00:34:05 Ipa
• I would say the same. It was so thrilling that it really stuck in my mind.
• 00:34:21 Mira
• Yes, those first drives. Do you remember where you went?
• 00:34:28 Ipa
• I think I drove to school in Espoo.
• 00:34:35 Kuisma
• Yes, I probably drove from the Riihimäki military base to the town center, maybe to a shop or to visit someone nearby. That must have been my first. Kids in the back seat...
• 00:35:12 Mira
• Could you share a memory of a time of change, if anything comes to mind?
• 00:35:28 Ipa
• A moment of change?
• 00:35:32 Kuisma
• My life has been so full of changes... How do I choose?
• 00:35:52 Mira
• It could be even a small one.
• 00:35:58 Kuisma
• One of the biggest changes was probably the birth of my first child.
• 00:36:14 Ipa
• Yes, that’s a big one for me too. Even though I haven’t given birth.
• 00:36:23 Kuisma
• But it’s still your own child.
• 00:36:26 Ipa
• True, that’s significant.
• 00:36:37 Kuisma
• With each of my five children, every birth was just as transformative. But the moment that started my ultimate transformation was in the summer of 2018, when I was sitting in a beautiful garden in Pasila and thinking to myself, “Who am I, really? I’m not a woman, but I don’t want to be a man either. What does this mean?” That was a powerful moment.
• 00:37:30 Ipa
• For me, it was my first visit to... what’s it called...
• 00:37:35 Kuisma
• The Gender Identity Clinic?
• 00:37:41 Ipa
• Yes, that’s it. I can never remember the name. That first appointment was significant. I’m still at the beginning of that journey—I’ve done the interviews, and next week, I have my first doctor’s appointment.
• 00:37:58 Kuisma
• It’s a slow process.
• 00:37:59 Ipa
• Yes, but still, it’s...
• 00:38:18 Kuisma
• It’s such a monumental step.
• 00:38:30 Mira
• Have there been any changes in your daily life?
• 00:38:36 Kuisma
• Yes, since we...
• 00:38:37 Ipa
• Moved in together. Especially with the kids now.
• 00:38:43 Kuisma
• I never thought I’d be starting life with kids again at this age. I thought I was done with it after my five. Also, us even beginning a relationship was a big deal. We met on Tinder, of all places! It’s funny that you can actually find someone there.
• 00:39:24 Mira
• Speaking of your relationship, do you like holding hands? How does it feel to hold the hand of someone you love?
• 00:39:39 Kuisma
• Actually, we don’t hold hands that much.
• 00:39:41 Ipa
• Yeah, not really.
• 00:39:43 Kuisma
• You probably would more than I would.
• 00:39:45 Ipa
• Yeah. Sometimes, yes, a bit more often.
• 00:39:49 Kuisma
• Rarely, but sometimes we do hold hands. I tend to avoid it a bit since I have arthritis in my hands, so I keep my hands to myself. I remember one time someone held my hand too tightly.
• 00:40:06 Ipa
• Too tightly.
• 00:40:07 Kuisma
• Yes, so I…
• 00:40:08 Ipa
• Okay.
• 00:40:13 Kuisma
• I remember it was a recent situation where someone grabbed my hand, and I tried to stay quiet, not saying anything, even though it hurt. Maybe that affects how I approach it now.
• 00:40:28 Ipa
• I’ll remember that next time.
• 00:40:30 Kuisma
• Yeah.
• 00:40:35 Mira
• How does it feel in other, everyday moments—like if you don’t hold hands, do you show affection in other small ways, like a pat on the shoulder?
• 00:40:47 Kuisma
• Or something like that.
• 00:40:49 Ipa
• Little things like that.
• 00:40:50 Kuisma
• Yes, if nothing else, a little nudge, like “Hey, move out of the way.” Just kidding, but small, everyday gestures like that.
• 00:41:03 Ipa
• It’s that type of affection that feels safe and comforting, creating a sense of security.
• 00:41:08 Kuisma
• It’s nice, actually. When we’re out, we do kiss or walk close together. However, people might see us as a straight couple since they see me as a man and them as a woman, which is discouraging. I think people are a bit more aware of these things than they used to be, though.
• 00:41:34 Ipa
• Sometimes some people don’t.
• 00:41:35 Kuisma
• Yeah.
• 00:41:43 Ipa
• [sounds from the school nearby] A school break is starting.
• 00:41:48 Mira
• Do you have any inside jokes, like words or phrases you only use with each other that make you laugh?
• 00:42:25 Kuisma
• We’ve become victims of advertising, with jokes like “tähän väliin tulee” (“put it between here”m a line from a burger ad). It’s always amusing.
• 00:42:34 Ipa
• It’s from a burger ad. ”Tähän väliin tulee” (“put it between here”)
• 00:42:35 Kuisma
• Yes.
• 00:42:37 Ipa
• Or adding a phrase like “in between” from some jingle. But we also have others, like one strange habit: we sometimes drop a letter from a word. If something goes wrong, instead of saying “oh, crap,” it becomes something sillier.
• 00:43:05 Kuisma
• Or just small expressions that are ours and not used with others because they’d feel a bit embarrassing in public.
• 00:43:23 Mira
• It’s funny how these things develop between people.
• 00:43:28 Kuisma
• Yes, they’re our little things, just between us.
• 00:43:57 Mira
• Do you have a memory of a time when you have not felt scared?
• 00:44:18 Ipa
• For me, it was the first time we met in person.
• 00:44:23 Kuisma
• Yes, when you stepped out of the bus. I had been really nervous. But when I saw you, the fear disappeared.
• 00:44:36 Kuisma
• I felt a bit the same. Actually, when I was already at your place and we sat on the couch, with the dog around.
• 00:44:47 Ipa
• Right in between us.
• 00:44:53 Kuisma
• That was one of those really good moments.
• 00:45:06 Mira
• Did that feel different from previous experiences, like meeting someone and feeling at ease right away?
• 00:45:19 Ipa
• I can’t remember anything like that with others.
• 00:45:22 Kuisma
• Yes, in this case, there was just no need to feel nervous or scared. The dog also played a big role in it for me—watching how you and the dog communicated. That was a big part of my comfort.
• 00:46:07 Mira
• Where was that bus stop where you met?
• 00:46:11 Ipa
• In Lohja. I live in Lohja, so…
• 00:46:15 Kuisma
• Yes, I came to Lohja by bus on July 31st, around noon.
• 00:46:27 Mira
• Was that your first meeting?
• 00:46:29 Kuisma
• Yes, that was the first. We had been texting, and then I decided to come visit. You hadn’t been going out much yet with the dog, so I came to you.
• 00:46:55 Mira
• Do you remember what you were thinking when you saw each other?
• 00:47:16 Kuisma
• I don’t have a very clear memory of that moment. It just felt good, comfortable, but no clear thoughts beyond that.
• 00:47:30 Ipa
• It felt good, like an instant feeling of, “Oh, this is the one.”
• 00:47:38 Kuisma
• I remember, when I was heading back to Helsinki, I knew we would meet again. It wasn’t a one-time thing; I knew there’d be more. And then we traveled back and forth between Helsinki and Lohja quite a bit.
• 00:48:05 Ipa
• Yes, traveling with the dog and…
• 00:48:09 Kuisma
• And you were worried about how the dog would adjust.
• 00:48:11 Ipa
• It went well; he adjusted fine.
• 00:48:29 Mira
• Do you have a memory of a time you felt like you truly belonged somewhere?
• 00:48:49 Kuisma
• That’s a bit harder.
• 00:48:51 Ipa
• For me, it’s Pride. I’ve felt a strong sense of belonging there.
• 00:49:03 Kuisma
• Yes, actually, that’s true for me as well. I often feel like an outsider, like I don’t quite belong here or there. But at Pride, there’s a strong sense of unity. Another is with my music community—when we play together, I feel like I belong.
• 00:50:52 Mira
• When and where was your first Pride? Do you remember your first experience?
• 00:51:01 Kuisma
• For me, it was after 2005, when I divorced my husband and finally felt able to attend. Probably around 2006, as my kids didn’t know yet. That first Pride, I was cautious, hoping not to be recognized by someone I knew.
• 00:51:44 Ipa
• I honestly can’t remember exactly, but I was dating someone at the time, so it must have been the ‘90s.
• 00:52:06 Mira
• Do you remember how it felt to go to your first Pride back then?
• 00:52:16 Kuisma
• Yes, I was nervous about what it would be like.
• 00:52:17 Ipa
• Me too. I didn’t worry about being seen or anything; it was more about not knowing what the event would be like. It was a much smaller gathering then.
• 00:52:44 Kuisma
• The first time, I didn’t march; I just watched from the sidewalk. Then, I joined the clean-up crew at the park afterward. I wasn’t so worried about being seen by people I knew; it was more that my kids might see me before I’d had a chance to tell them.
• 00:53:43 Mira
• When and why, if you want to share, did you last cry?
• 00:53:50 Ipa
• Well, I don’t remember. It's been so darn long, so yeah.
• 00:53:56 Kuisma
• There’s been some tears now and then, but maybe sometime in the spring, even. My eyes get moist constantly but I wouldn’t call it crying. Remembering a lot of different things, so then these moments come up. But it’s not a negative feeling, really, just a good one.
• 00:54:38 Ipa
• For me, it was when my son got sick.
• 00:54:40 Kuisma
• Yeah, that’s a big thing.
• 00:54:41 Ipa
• Yes, a serious health scare. That was a couple of years ago.
• 00:54:54 Kuisma
• Two and a half years.
• 00:54:55 Ipa
• Yes, I had just moved here. Yeah.
• 00:55:05 Mira
• Anyway, I guess this could be a question: what are your favorite animals, and why?
• 00:55:17 Ipa
• Why?
• 00:55:30 Kuisma
• Well, I’ve always loved cats, but I like dogs now, too. We had that dog Nipsu. It was my first dog, so yeah. Dogs are maybe the most special. Hard to say which would be more important.
• 00:56:02 Ipa
• For me, it’s the fox. It always shows up in various situations, so it's like a soul animal to me.
• 00:56:15 Kuisma
• But you’re a dog person, aren’t you?
• 00:56:16 Ipa
• Yes, I’d say so. I’ve had many dogs.
• 00:56:26 Mira
• So you’ve seen foxes around, like when you’ve been sitting on the field, and a fox came up to you, but do they show up at other times, too?
• 00:56:38 Ipa
• Yes, like when my aunt, who lived in the U.S., got sick and passed away in the night. My dog demanded to go outside—not because it urgently needed to, but it really wanted to go out. And outside, there was a fox sitting in the moonlight. I just knew what it meant, and then in the morning, my mom called to say my aunt had passed away. For me, that was okay, somehow; I already knew. The fox had shown up.
• 00:57:33 Kuisma
• Foxes roam around here in our yard, too. We’ve seen them a couple of times, though a neighbor saw one more recently.
• 00:57:40 Ipa
• Yes.
• 00:57:45 Kuisma
• We mostly see rabbits.
• 00:57:46 Ipa
• Yeah.
• 00:57:59 Mira
• If you had to imagine each other as animals, what animal do you think each of you would be? For example, Kuisma, what animal would Ipa be, and vice versa?
• 00:58:23 Ipa
• An owl comes to mind because you’re wise.
• 00:58:29 Kuisma
• But I don’t stay up at night, do I?
• 00:58:32 Ipa
• Yeah, but owls are awake at night, and they're sensible.
• 00:58:45 Kuisma
• And for you, a bear. Not a predator, more like a teddy bear.
• 00:58:55 Ipa
• A teddy bear.
• 00:58:55 Kuisma
• Yes, a bit like a teddy bear.
• 00:59:00 Kuisma
• Warm, comfortable, safe, and calm.
• 00:59:12 Mira
• A bear and an owl.
• 00:59:18 Kuisma
• An animal zoo in our living room.
• 00:59:37 Mira
• Finally, as a question: what do you want to be when you “grow up”?
• 00:59:52 Ipa
• I want to be balanced, truly myself. Even though I’m already mostly there.
• 01:00:17 Kuisma
• I’d like to get even better at my music hobby. I still find I’m learning new things, and I want to be like a "Mumpa," a combination of grandma (“mummo”) and grandpa (“pappa”). I have a little grandson who just turned two this month. His father asked me to be a grandparent since he has no contact with his own parents. So I became "Mumpa" to the little one. I want to keep that title. It's like an honorary title. But, you know…
• 01:01:07 Ipa
• Yes.
• 01:01:08 Kuisma
• When he was really little and they brought him here for the first time, and placed him in my arms, the smile on his little face was just incredible.
• 01:01:20 Ipa
• Yes.
• 01:01:22 Kuisma
• He smiled at me in a way only a tiny baby can.
• 01:01:27 Ipa
• It’s really touching.
• 01:01:29 Kuisma
• Yes, he’s there [in the photo] with his little hat, carrying a bag, and wearing a cardigan I knitted.
• 01:01:43 Ipa
• Is it alright if I get up now? I need to prepare some food for myself since I have to go soon.
• 01:01:48 Mira
• Sure, thank you for answering all of these questions.
• 01:01:56 Kuisma
• They’re heading to work to assist an elderly person a few times a week for a couple of hours.
• 01:02:08 Mira
• Is there anything you’d like to say, something that comes to mind?
• 01:02:13 Kuisma
• I think I’ve already talked about a lot of important things.
• 01:02:24 Mira
• What about you, Frank?
• 01:02:29 Frank
• I have a question, and I’ll try in Finnish.
• 01:02:36 Kuisma
• Feel free to ask in English if it’s easier; I’ll let you know if I don’t understand.
• 01:02:40 Mira
• I’ll help translate.
• 01:02:42 Frank
• So, about parenting, I’d like to become a parent soon, and my partner is also a trans guy. It’s a big thing, and I’m a bit scared because we’re both a same-sex couple and a trans couple…
• 01:03:11 Kuisma
• You know…
• 01:03:15 Frank
• Do you have any advice?
• 01:03:21 Kuisma
• Trust yourselves. Parenting just happens naturally when the child is there; the parenthood grows in that moment. Being trans or gay or whatever—others might see it as a problem, but you shouldn’t let it be a problem for you. Be exactly who you are. People may say anything, but that’s on them. I’ve been spared from harsh comments, but I know people say all kinds of thoughtless things. Just let them go. Sometimes you can ask them if they always talk to others that way, or if it’s just an exception this time. But trust yourselves.
• 01:04:52 Mira
• Thank you.
• 01:04:57 Kuisma
• Thank you. This brought up a lot to think about.
• 01:05:02 Mira
• Yes, you spoke so beautifully. Thank you for sharing and for being part of this.